Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

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Crøw
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:23 am
Location: Do NOT email me, if contact is needed send PM.

Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Crøw »

Yes, I am finally on the forum, greetings everyone, I am sure you are all happy to see me :D

I apologize ahead for the long post, but things have become such that I must tell them here.
Generally otherwise I try to avoid long posts.

Now, let me begin with the pretext of the fact that I am not obsessed with UT nor am usually spending more time than I am willing on playing on the server, and when I am done I just do my daily life things, hence up until now I never bothered wasting time going to this forum or being involved with it more than casual playing, but the situation in the game has now become such that I feel obligated to do so.

People say that I complain a lot, and I do agree to some extent, but at least I am trying to be as constructive as possible with my complaints, with the goal being improving and bettering things, so here I go...

My main reason for the post here, is that I notice that while the server is not a bad place to play overall (many maps, frequent updates and new additions, overall fun gameplay if we exclude what follows in my post here), and while I dislike the disabling of scores, generally the time spent on the server can be alright.

The problem is a lack of proper moderation of players, especially ones who have been proven to behave in an abusive way, or have expressed very disturbing and concerning tendencies, even if that "did not break any rules".

As a person with some skills in managing groups of people, and I am not someone who just brags about it for show, please see screenshot below of two local pro freedom Telegram groups that I manage (being an avid Telegram user for about a decade now), one having 664 and the other 712 members, I do have experience in managing groups and spotting, addressing and dealing with problematic individuals, so when I was surprisingly given the L4 admin rights I thought it could be a good opportunity to put my skills to use in a community of a game that I enjoy.
Tele group admin1.jpg
Tele group admin1.jpg (117.57 KiB) Viewed 5012 times
(you are free to look up the SHTF group and contact me, as this is the public group!)

What we have had going on recently with the player named Gonzo, who was witnessed and logged to be showing behavior that should make him unwelcome in most groups, except the most perverted or even illegal ones, yet the existing admins and Barbie seem to be ok with letting such an individual remain a member here.
When I first met him, he was constantly harassing any player he thought was female, to the point that many felt uncomfortable, for example he would block, hump, and constantly message, even when the other players didn't show interest.
That would have been acceptable if he'd just stop, but he in fact was also discussing with me things that are the reason for my insisting on his permanent removal from this community, and to be specific, he would go online when I am there, and talk to me about things ranging from asking which players are female, whether I would like to see pictures of some, how women are not deserving respect, discussing going to prostitutes, talking about young and "tight" ones, and even offering me to buy pictures right after telling he got banned for getting pictures of underage girls.
I at the moment told him that this would be a great way to get banned from here, but as a fairly shocking discovery, Barbie the owner here doesn't think that this behavior is completely unnacceptable, worse yet Barbie thinks that it is "OK to ask for pictures" as long as they disagree.
The talk goes on how he was asking the player Gravity who is a teenager for pictures and she found out through someone that he was asking for nude photos of her, accusations that he did not even deny, only said that she "doesn't know the truth" and "there is no log".
Well guess what, I do have logs of him saying he was banned for getting pics of underage girls, and of him offering me to buy pictures.

These are the screenshots which refer to what I have written above:
gonzo gravity nudes jan24.jpg
gonzo gravity nudes jan24.jpg (107.82 KiB) Viewed 5012 times
gonzo gravity nudes jan24_2.jpg
gonzo gravity nudes jan24_2.jpg (116.91 KiB) Viewed 5012 times

The problem with this individual Gonzo, is that he then goes on and whines and complains about my so called "mistreatment" of him on here, and then Barbie decides that he "didn't break any rules", and is acting like everything is ok, and he can continue unhindered.

An individual doesn't have to break a rule to display outrageous and unacceptable behavior.
Would you be ok if a random stranger approached your teenage daughter and asked her for pics? maybe he doesn't break any laws, but in the real world people like that get a punch in the face and the entire community then hates them.
But barbie thinks that, and I quote "Well, he can ask".

This is where I SERIOUSLY disagree on the skills in moderation of people.
Enabling pedophilia and requesting pictures of udnerage girls is "OK"?
I do NOT find it to be ok, and if anyone who reads this does, then yes I have a problem with you.
In fact, this constitutes to enabling pedophilia and harassment, and if I can do anything about it, then I definitely will, and this will include kicking the player any time I even see them come in, as people like that are NOT welcome in any normal community.
Screenshots of my dialogue with Barbie are attached in the post below as I can't add them on here, but below you can find the other things this pedo pervert has been doing:
gonzo oct-nov 2021.jpg
gonzo oct-nov 2021.jpg (266.82 KiB) Viewed 5012 times

I have told Barbie that I will not be using my surprisingly attained authority to remove Gonzo from the game, but I will now have to tell you all that I have changed my mind, and in fact in light of what this individual represents, as long as I have the ability, I will make sure he is gone from the game.
If others don't think this is the right thing to do, well then I personally do, and will be acting on that.
If such a situation was to arise in real life, this kind of individual would have been banned from a community, and in here I will be exercising the power to do so as long as I am able to. I insist on such people receiving a permanent ban, but if Barbie or other admins think that it is "ok" to keep such people around as long as they "didn't break any rules", then we are at a deep disagreement, and I am ashamed to even be around ones who think that it's ok to allow such people to be around.

To add to my observations regarding poor people management, we can add such an example as who many here may recognize as "jinx". After observing this player briefly, I have determined pretty clearly that we were dealing with a mentally unstable individual.
Yet, with him coming to the game for MONTHS and trolling, harassing, and making the community an unwelcome place for people, the only solution was to "just mute him"? Is this a real solution for a person that makes it unpleasant for everyone else to play?

What's going on here is the enablement of abusers to come to the server, and do as they wish. And without proper moderation, there will be more cases like this as some people are opportunists who are looking to abuse and exploit.
People in positions of an admin or a mod, and especially the owner of a server have to be aware of such issues and deal with them proactively, rather than letting them continue creating an unwelcoming environment for players.

We can also throw in an example of me trying to do my duties at keeping the game a pleasant place, and the player -=63=- comes along, I am being told immediately by others that he is a constant team shooter, I observe for 10+ minutes, watch him doing exactly that. and then ask him nicely to stop team shooting. After him not stopping, I ask again, and I receive mockery. After a few requests, I end up kicking said player.
What happens next? Barbie logs in and asks me to "use the mute function"....
What does that tell me, that either Barbie is trying to limit what I should be doing which I find to be reasonable (kicking for one match after constant team shooting), or if perhaps Barbie has no idea what is even going on, or perhaps Barbie thinking that muting is some kind of magic solution that will stop an abusive player from shooting his team members...

There were a few other incidents, where I would ask other admins to get involved, namely datsi and brooze, and they would take a very reluctant position of not wanting to get involved, and as datsi once told me, she doesn't do any moderation, and to go and ask someone else.
These are NOT the kind of practice someone in a position of an admin should do.
Administering requires skill, reasoning, and responsibility.


I was given the L4 admin position a few weeks ago, by total surprise in fact (I did not even ask for it), but now that I have it, I feel that I am being limited from performing my duties as I see to be reasonable.
If Barbie or other admins are finding it hard to engage in the duty of socially managing players, then I am gladly willing to help with that by providing my reasonable judgement and actions, all of which I can explain and provide a logical reason to.
As many here know me, I like fooling and joking around, talking nonsense, but when it comes to serious issues, believe me (and as perhaps you can see), I can be serious and make reasonable and justifiable judgement.

But, If the situation is going to be such that problematic people can't be dealt with, nor I will be allowed to take authority over players who are abusive, interfering, harassing and promoting misogyny and pedophilia, then I hereby am NO longer interested in being an admin, and in fact I will NOT have any respect to the other administrators nor Barbie the owner here, or anyone who thinks that dealing with problems the way they are currently being dealt with is "ok".


I look forward for any constructive commentary and criticism, feel welcome to post such, except if it comes from Gonzo, as I will not be responding nor paying attention to his comments, and if you are reading this here Gonzo, then I will remind you once again that YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

(posts of my interaction with Barbie are in the following post)
Crøw
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:23 am
Location: Do NOT email me, if contact is needed send PM.

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Crøw »

Barbie convo screenshots, taken place on Jan 25, 2022:

Screenshots of PRIVATE MESSAGE removed
PRIVATE MESSAGE means PRIVATE and should never be published in public without permission of all participants!
--02 Feb. 2022 22:33 MET, Barbie
Attachments
What_does_PM_mean.jpg
What_does_PM_mean.jpg (58.95 KiB) Viewed 4972 times
Gonzo
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:38 pm

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Gonzo »

The screenshot itself provoes that Crows claims are based on a different server and Gravity herself said visibly in the screenshot that someone told her that I did it (in a different server) but she doesn't know whether it is true or not, and I say that that someone is Crow with is an alternate account on that server. And yes I asked if wildcat and sigi are girl or guy, whats wrong with taht? Thats just plain conversation and do sometimes talk flirtly with 20+ year old adult girls, but I always ask them, if they say no, I never disturb them cause I respect them and take no for a no, and I have not asked anything to girls after November, and this was discussed before, also his claims with Gravity itself proves most of his claims are lies, Gravity herself said that she never saw me asking her for anything, it was Crow who lied to her about it with an alternate account oon a DIFFERENT SERVER , and there is not a single log of me asking any girls for their pics ever in any server in UT, especially not Barbie's server. And Barbie you yourself checked the logs and said you found me not breaking any rules the day Crow kicked me, and Crow was warned by you, but Crow admitted to not caring about your warning and kicks me any way based on his lies! Anyway I had it with Crow's nerdy bitching, I don't care what happens to him anymore or not, he is an abusive admin, ask other platers they all know, Brooze was thee better admin but Crow for some reason gets special treatment. I will be busy with life again as my work schedule was flexible in December and January I played here more than I did ever before since I joined this sever back in 2019 (and I have been playing Unreal and UT since 2005), I never encountred an abusive admin like Crow anywhere else. Regardless he can do what he likes , I have no wish to talk to him and as I will be busy with life and mhy job, I will be very less active and I don't no if I can even join the server again or not, not because of Crow's lies and bullying but because unlike him I have a real life Barbie your server is one of the few good servers left on UT, most are dead now, and no matter what decision you take I will always respect you for making this server. Anyway fact is fact, Crow is a liar and and abusive admin, judge yourself Barbie, this is my last comment on forum because lifes getting hard now and I don't know if I can be on the server again or not because my work load is gonna be rough. Goodluck Barbie and everyone, except Crow who is a blant liar and an abusive admin, tc! :arrow:
Crøw
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:23 am
Location: Do NOT email me, if contact is needed send PM.

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Crøw »

(The message from gonzo was ignored and not read because as I've said I will not be engaging with this individual whatsoever, I do not care one bit what he says or writes neither here nor in the game, I have already gotten all of the impression that I needed from him).

Barbie,
I will hereby firmly disagree with your message regarding "private messages".
Messages that have been sent to ME, are going to be used by me, AT MY SOLE DISCRETION, regardless of the desires of the individual that was communicating with me.
I am sorry but you do not get to dictate the rules in regards to what I do with the private messages that I receive, regardless of who they are from.


I will refer here to the law in most states in the United States, and it is that when communication between two parties are being recorded with knowledge by at least one of the parties present, it is then constitutes to legal evidence and can be used against the other participating party, it is only illegal to use such evidence if neither party was aware of their messages being intercepted.


Since what was posted in the messages have gotten you concerned and you were quick to remove them, namely saying that "it is OK" (quote "well, he can ask") for gonzo to make requests for things such as nude photos of underage players as posted in my post above (and only "if there is a NO" then he should stop), which is clearly a promotion of an activity that is considered illegal in most places, then let me set up an ultimatum here:
I demand that you permanently ban this individual from your server and will do whatever is necessary to prevent such behavior from anyone else with strict and harsh punishment for things that are clearly socially unacceptable and may be illegal, and in fact look into moderating the place in a better way to deal with problematic individuals by actually implementing kicking and banning for reasons that are to be decided by the admin in charge (let's say constant and repeated interference with the game like trolling, team shooting, verbal harassment or illegal behavior, which doesn't stop after multiple requests).


Like I've written in my original post, as a morally and socially responsible individual that has witnessed this kind of activity being allowed to happen without any real consequences in a publicly open game server where anyone can be exposed to it, if nothing will happen after my request, I will then do the following:
-Repost the PM screenshots you have removed, and may keep reposing them if they are removed again
-Post a copy of this message including ALL of the screenshots including the PMs in a few other places that are related to the UT community, including forums and spaces which have significantly more exposure than this rarely visited forum, something that will certainly enlighten people to what is allowed to be happening here, I will then post links to said other forums on this forum here.

If I am banned from using this forum or playing on the server, it will not be relevant because once again I am not taking this action for my own benefit, but solely as a moral responsibility and the betterment of the community, and the information will be available to many others to make judgement and proceed as they may decide.

I will give it 48 hours from the time of me posting this reply for any action to happen before proceeding further.


I would like to believe that what you have written to me in regarding to this behavior was done in poor judgement, and see it that you make the right and morally responsible decision about it now, to promote a fun, peaceful, and harassment & abuse free game environment for anyone to participate in, by eliminating individuals that are abusing it.
Crøw
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:23 am
Location: Do NOT email me, if contact is needed send PM.

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Crøw »

Well, since nothing has seemingly been done since my last message, and more than 48 hours have passed, I am hereby reposting the removed
screenshots of my private messages:

Screenshots of private chat removed by Barbie, 2022-02-07, 14:12 MET

In case of removal of screenshots or posts, copies of the entire thread can now also be found on the dU forum in the ink here:
http://www.destinationunreal.com/module ... 2279#12279
As well as the GameTracker forum using the following link:
https://www.gametracker.com/games/ut/fo ... post467387

This forum here may see increased traffic in the coming days, but there's nothing to worry about, just making everyone aware of the situation :)

Everyone have a great day!
Barbie
Site Admin
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by Barbie »

Another violation of the rule "don't publish private things" will cause account suspension.
mousythemouse
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:52 am

Re: Bad moderation, enabling of abusive players promoting misogyny and pedophilia, awful work by admins

Post by mousythemouse »

Here is my post on dU forum, regarding the problem player Gonzo.
PROBLEM PLAYER ON BARBIE SERVER (GONZO):
http://www.destinationunreal.com/module ... 2282#12282
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